Curse

Fate Crusher · Aug 05, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

4+ years and despite all my best efforts, i've always come back to Guild Wars.

It was my first proper dip into online gaming. Other MMOs scared me with monthly subscription fees (which really mattered to me because i wasn't sure if i would actually rack up enough hours to make it seem worth it) and GW didn't.

I think the great thing is that, because Guild Wars was originally designed from the PvP side first, the overall ballance and equalness of all players appealed to the casual gamer a la moi.

It was the first time i would be able to get something done in a game within an hour. Because of schooling and sports commitments, i didn't have much time for pwning n00bs. I loved RA for that reason.

Because i've been so in love with this game, i've really just ridden the Guild Wars train and accepted it as what it has turned out to be, even the advent of heroes. I even made lengths to obtain wireless broadband in my old boardingschool just so i can plaaay.

It's a beautiful game. Maybe Anet should realise that such a beautiful game that they spent so much time and creativity doesn't deserve the embarassing maintanence it's experiencing.

Clobimon · Aug 05, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I believe I would be remiss to not reply in this thread. It took almost three years for me to even fully consider playing a different game than Guild Wars, and that was mostly due to there not being additional campaigns/expansions being added in. Still, even while not playing 'hardcore' for the past year I've checked the forums, wikis and other sites near daily to stay informed because of interest. I also still log in and play periodically - the thing that can't be done with subscription games.

Anyway, I've been thinking it for the past year and have even mentioned it in a couple posts that one truly doesn't appreciate how well ANet ran GW all through it's primary focus lifetime compared to some companies that can be experienced out there. From Gaile's near weekly visits in LA to chat with players, comparably fast fixes and updates, major content additions every six months with other things inbetween, streaming updates for essentially zero downtime... This little company spawned a game that became quite popular very quickly in the face of a giant, WoW, and didn't back down.

Outside of the campaigns they continually added things into the game that were/are by and large very popular and pretty darn neat even if they didn't seem like a big thing at the time; heroes, guild hall npc, observer mode, templates!, observe from live party member while dead, green weapon skins, official wiki & attachment to F10, titles!, HoH, minipets, treasure chests in NF, etc. They quickly realized that hundreds of thousands of players were playing the thing as mainly a pve game and started adjusting accordingly. They ran the game and added to the game in a way that people on the outside would say you don't get or have with a "f2p" game. And, they did it all with barely ever shutting down the servers. The p2p suppose-to-be-major game I've played for the past year and some is nowhere near as timely and efficient as ANet... and their struggles show in player numbers.

I will agree that there are certain things missing from GW that don't need to be mentioned once again. However, these things are mainly additions to the game and less about changes with how it's played. They're also things that ANet always knew about and did desire to add in. I believe that if the course had stayed on it's track we would have seen more of them included. ANet appears to have certain standards for their work though, and to do things the best way we are where we are now, waiting for GW2.

Some of my favorite things of GW... 'cheerios' (h/h), templates, mission format, skills and usage to include secondary profession, armor & weapon skins (so many just rock), solo-ability - farming, holiday events, cartography and skill capping...

my least favorite things aren't a problem with what is there but what isn't. Some of that is supposedly being addressed with GW2 so we shall see.

these are some of my thoughts and opinions

midnightduo1 · Aug 05, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

gw has really been unique to me, compared to the other mmo's
and i've tried dozens and donzens, they all seem to be a clone of WoW, major grinding here and there

this is the kind of game that seems sophisticated in a way

Nessar · Aug 05, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I've only been playing gw for 2 1/2ish years & I've always come back to it no matter what. I tried perfect world but theres too much grind. WoW bored me to death. Runes of magic was fun but I just didn't get into it.
GW just prevents me from playing any other mmos. It sets so many high standards, it's incredible. Its always been the type of game that I can jump in play whenever I wanted & however I wanted to.

No matter how many flaws it has, I think it's one of the greatest games I've played. I *hope* GW2 is the same.

Buster · Aug 05, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I thought Arenanet did a good job. Things I did not like was...

1. Trying to balance a million+1 skills is time wasting and frustrating. Needed less skills from the start.

2. Anti farm codes and constantly nerfing every class was ridiculous. We need less of this in GW2!

novawhiz · Aug 05, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

The only bad things in my opinion are:
-Heros: Imo they ruined the game my encouraging solo play and made Titles meaningless.
- Consistent "Instances": Everytime you enter UW or FoW, etc its the same exact thing. I would like to have seen random spawns, random setup, AI thinking a little more.
- The Economy and Golds: These days golds and items you get from normal play are worthless and the only things that buy/sell are the 4-5 high end weapons and Asian Minis. I would like maybe another thing to spend money on that just a stupid 5inch pet that walks behindyou.
- Uselessness Of Skills/ Guildwiki/Guru: So each class gets a billion skills, but only ever uses 10% of them and only 4-5 elite skills. Then ever single person is expected to run some generic pvxwiki build and is shut down for any glimmer of creativity.
- Not Enough Emphasis on Guilds: Every MMO has guilds/clans/w/e but only one is called Guild Wars. You think there would be a little more emphasis on Guilds than simply one aspect of Pvp barely anyone has ever experienced
I want to see some sort of Guild interaction in PvE areas...maybe 2 Guilds in a single instance working together or fighting to get to the end first. Something more that just 1 pvp thing.
- No Truly Challenging Area: I remeber old guildwars 2005-2006 when people would try UW and fail miserable but it was fun trying to do it. Soon after though gimmick builds made every area in Guild Wars a joke.
I want an area that is so challenging and randomized that it is impossible for pugs to just SC through it. When EoTN came out i was hoping for dungeon like that but now every dungeon in the game can be run in HM with no more that 3 people.
- "Invinci" Monks: I mean come on. I was fine with 55monks ruling the game 2005-2006. But after 4+ years of the game being out, 55/600/W/e monks still rule a large majority of elite PvE. Sure they arnt as prominent in UW anymore, but almost every dungeon can be 600'd.
- Drops/Farming: I wished Guild Wars would change the way drops work. I want it so when your in a party with real people you get more drops than solo. I also want it so that the only worthwhile drops come from challenging places that require 8 coordinated human players.
- Armor/Rarest Armor: I wish the "best" armor in the game wasnt simply a gold sink. I want there to be an armor that proves you have destroyed this game. Lets say High end chests at like DoA, UW, Fow, etc drop Collector items that connot be traded. Then it takes something like 15 DoA items, 15 UW items, 15 FoW items to get the Chest piece of armor or something. Then when i see someone with the "best" armor i know they didnt just ebay it or get lucky or w/e.
- Equalize Proffesions: Kinda stupid seeing the same Trinity setup or classes being used not as they are intended such as SF solo sins.
I want anet to make it so every proffesion has an imperative role in each High end pve area. Lets say that for DoA you really have to have certain shouts from a Paragon. Or some spirits from a rit are in high demand because of their usefullness in an area.

That or i want some High end pve area that requires you have 6 different proffesions in your party or something. Its just annoying to see the same proffesions abused and the same proffesions gathereing dust.

-Rank System: If you did HA in early guildwars this was fine but the fact is it is near impossible to get far in HA without r7+. I want a margionalized bracket. lets say r0-3, r4-7, etc. Just to make PvP more appealing to PvE players.

That being said i still find Guild Wars to be a phenomenal game and everytime i say im quitting i always end up coming back just because its so good.

Foe · Aug 05, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Guild Wars was a free mmoish game where one could dress up their avatar, farm phat loots and pwn noobs. Without a monthly sub!! Success!

It just so happened that said game turned out to be hella great! And then....

The question isnt how good was Guild Wars. Its what the hell happened!? Or maybe, "who" the hell happened!?

The biggest flaw in their model(for us) is that without a legit competitor for their sub-less customers there isnt much of a quality yard stick. If certain people at Blizzard tanked the WoW subs there would be changes made. At Anet you fail upwards or laterally lol.

Its been a tale of the False Positive,imo. Or maybe a recognition of the fact there were no competitors for their share of the sub-free market and a "take what we give you" culture arose. idk

For anyone thats been playing since Prophesies you have to have wondered at some point, was it a fluke? Did these guys/gals even know why people loved their game?? Lol this goes for pve and pvp, its like they sat down and said "Ok team, what is it that our customers love about our product, now, how can we take a dump on all those qualities"

Oh yeah, an expansion every 6 months, lol.

Racthoh · Aug 06, 2009, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Only real criticism would be when they started to cater to the PvE crowd. Consumables, majority of PvE skills/PvE versions of skills, the poor implementation of hard mode, I enjoy experimenting and making builds and a lot of that was taken away as the game got older. Wait so this skill raises everyone's armor by 100? Hand me the glue.

I'm thoroughly hoping the AI returns in GW2 and catches on in other games. Combat is significantly more enjoyable when you're simply not grinding one on one encounters as you quest to max level. If the endgame is going to focus on cooperative play then the progression to that stage should reflect it as well. I don't care if your game has hundreds, thousands of quests spread over varied environments when the actual gameplay element bores me to death. I'm looking at you WoW.

Arkantos · Aug 06, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Only real criticism would be when they started to cater to the PvE crowd. Consumables, majority of PvE skills/PvE versions of skills, the poor implementation of hard mode, I enjoy experimenting and making builds and a lot of that was taken away as the game got older. Wait so this skill raises everyone's armor by 100? Hand me the glue.

Completely agree.

Hard Mode:

Very, very poorly designed. Instead of giving enemies good skill bars that have synergy (pre-EotN, at least they gave enemies in EotN decent bars) and decent AI, they just made them higher attributes, health, and armor, and made them attack, run, and cast faster.

PvE-Only Skills:

Should have never been implemented the way they were. I have no idea why ANet decided to go time > skill, but they certainly did with these. I would have rather seen profession specific skills that were linked to an attribute, were more powerful than average skills, but not like they are now.

Consumables:

Should have never been implemented, period. Again, I don't know why ANet went time > skill. For a few platinum, your party gains a bunch of buffs giving you absurd buffs.

So, what ever happened to skillful play? Gone when they introduced PvE-only skills and consumables. PvE is nothing but your party with super powerful buffs and skills fighting enemies with absurd buffs and health/armor/attributes. Not very fun, or skillful.

Targren · Aug 06, 2009, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Hard Mode:

Very, very poorly designed. Instead of giving enemies good skill bars that have synergy (pre-EotN, at least they gave enemies in EotN decent bars) and decent AI, they just made them higher attributes, health, and armor, and made them attack, run, and cast faster.

PvE-Only Skills:

Should have never been implemented the way they were. I have no idea why ANet decided to go time > skill, but they certainly did with these. I would have rather seen profession specific skills that were linked to an attribute, were more powerful than average skills, but not like they are now.

Consumables:

Should have never been implemented, period. Again, I don't know why ANet went time > skill. For a few platinum, your party gains a bunch of buffs giving you absurd buffs.

So, what ever happened to skillful play? Gone when they introduced PvE-only skills and consumables. PvE is nothing but your party with super powerful buffs and skills fighting enemies with absurd buffs and health/armor/attributes. Not very fun, or skillful.

I disagree with Racthoh but agree with you. Other than HM, ArenaNet did well until EotN. With HM they half-assed it and made the "challenge" based on large numbers of mobs with huge stat boosts, monster skills, and basically made it "War of attrition against uber-zergling rush" mode. EotN was a bit more stylish there in a few spots(I love to hate the charr homelands) but they made the fatal mistake... They started their inevitable descent towards GW2 being a WoW clone. PvE skills let them take the easy way out on the challenge again, by giving players "monster" skills that they had to grind for, and very little content to speak of.

Bug John · Aug 06, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Maybe Anet realized that their high end pve has poor repeatability, and they had to make the game about big numbers (pve skills, consumables...) to keep people from leaving once they completed everything once.

GW would need changes in its mechanics and monsters AI, which will most likely come with GW2.

Back on topic, Anet created a unique game, far from the traditional wow-like mmo, with a real pvp : limited skillbar, limited level, mesmers...

wilebill · Aug 06, 2009, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Playing since retail release of Prophecies, ANet has created a game along the way that I like and keep coming back to.

GW is my home in the gaming world.

diehuman · Aug 06, 2009, 01:02 PM // 13:02

perma sins
did good for sc and runs but ruin basic concept of tanking in all mmorpgs

Targren · Aug 06, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

Maybe Anet realized that their high end pve has poor repeatability, and they had to make the game about big numbers (pve skills, consumables...) to keep people from leaving once they completed everything once.

Nah, they came up with titles for that. :P

If I had to guess, I'd hope (since it's really one of the few sane reasons) that it was because they were trying to get new players into the game 3 years after release and cons and PvE skills were a way to do exactly what people are always complain about them doing: give newer players a chance to "catch up" to the ones who have been playing since beta.

Quote:

Back on topic, Anet created a unique game, far from the traditional wow-like mmo, with a real pvp : limited skillbar, limited level, mesmers...

And PvE in an instanced world. That was a BIG factor in my enjoyment, and is, as far as I know, unique in the MMO universe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehuman

perma sins
did good for sc and runs but ruin basic concept of tanking in all mmorpgs

Err. That concept was being slaughered by GW long before permas came about. Permas brought BACK the basic concept of tanking.

Grammar · Aug 06, 2009, 01:54 PM // 13:54

The 8 skill slot bar is what made the game, without question.

The low level cap and low grind were the icing on the cake.

And no monthly fees were the candles.

Jetdoc · Aug 06, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

No monthly Fee A++
Easily the #1 item on the list for me that separated GW from other games. This is the item that keeps me coming back for more.

Limited skill bars A+
The #2 item that makes this game great. I was a Magic: The Gathering fan prior to joining Guild Wars, and the "creating builds" aspect of the game was simply awesome for me.

Looks A+
#3 item on my list. This separated GW from other games for me...the ability to get lost in the graphics is a huge plus for the game.

Trading C
The lack of any sort of consolidated trading system (e.g. an auction house) for a game of this size of disappointing. The implementation of inscribable items and green weapons seemed to be a "patch" for this core issue, and a poor one at that.

Heroes/Henchmen C-
I've made my position on these quite clear, so I won't go into that here. Great concept, horrible implementation.

Grouping System F
With the expanding GW universe, the ability to group with other players was neglected for the longest time, and was subsequently "patched" with the combined trading interface that we have today. Simply an abyssmal system for such a large playing universe. This concept exacerbates the Heroes/Henchmen issue described above.

Overall, I give Guild Wars a big A-. Incredible framework and concept, just a little rough around the edges.

Fluffiliscious · Aug 06, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I think that Anet did a fantastic job. Guild Wars is a fantastic game and I've found very little to complain about. A lot of the things that most people take issue with haven't really seemed to have affected me as much as people who play a lot more than I do. I've not bothered with another computer game since I found Guild Wars.

Skyy High · Aug 06, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

GW is a really superb game overall, and like most quality products, seems largely accidental. A lot of the things done wrong appear to be from the devs not being quite sure what they intended the game to be. That doesn't change the fact that the general concept of the game is far more unique and interesting than a lot of the MMOs on the market.

Pros:
Low level cap and equipment requirements.
Skillbar and attribute design rather than d2-ish speccing.
Competitive organized PvP.
Map Travel.
Emphasis on skillbar design rather than character levels/eq.

Cons:
Unlocking creates massive barrier to entry.
Far too many skills added to the game.
New classes that added nothing and caused glaring imbalances.
Questionable dev response to balance feedback.
CR.

Add to the Pros section "money mainly used to buy cool-looking, not better, gear", and to the Cons section "little support for player-to-player trade/grouping" and I agree wholeheartedly.

refer · Aug 06, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Pro - fancy weapons are only for looks / instances / lots of skills

con - overpowered skills / all factions pvp needs rebalance to make it interesting / AFTER CAST (kill it!)

Shemsu Anpw · Aug 06, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

<*Text Wall Warning*>

To be fair GW was my first MMO. I was ABLE to try it due to no subscription. And I was SO amazed. I have been playing for something like 28 mos. And am still I'm pressed when I login everytime. I have tried a few different MMO's that are free to play,(I refuse to continue paying monthly for a game I already bought) and none of them stood up to Guildwars.

Either the games had terrible graphiics, were broken, or terrible trasnlations(I played Shaiya for awhile got a quest bassically "kill the boars".....it should have been bears.......spent forever trying to find out which type of boar..it had been miss-spelled for quite along time and never fixed..but had gotten map updates, yeash).

Then theres the Attributes in all the other MMO's I have played... "What do you mean I have to start over or pay real money to reset character stats cause my stats won't work well for the class I want to "evolve" into.

And the PKing of newbs in other games so the other person can feel better about their selves when the newbie's are trying to level. The only thing I can say is that in Rising Force if the other factions came by and PKed the newbs or yourself you could call for help and the "elite" players would quickly get there and pound them to heck. It was nice to be part of that. But was very frusterating for low levels.

In all these things GW broke me for others. The versatility of stats and profesion roles in the game. You could explore the class and the skills and not be screwed with not liking the skill and now being stuck with it. Each class has the ability to farm certain areas with certain builds. Face it in MMO's sometimes you feel like you just don't know how to play when your basically starting out cause you don't have money, GW gives all classes some ability for farming if done right. A safe are to play and level in as well as level restricted areas to lear to PvP in without the annoyance of a PK. There isnt any "Ha HA we screwed you" start over breakage of a game. And it does great in bringing in new players.

The Graphics while arguably are not quite life-like are a far cry than most of them out there that are 100% cartoonish. The ability to get a beautiful looking game and varied settings in game and not need a high-end video card to appreciate the looks opened the door to mid-range video cards and even many low-end or intergrated cards. GW tailored to everyone not just the "elite" which is just another selling point I think. How many studios really put forth that kind of effort for "everyone."

More importantly that all these ground breaking or at least novel attempts were done without a Subscription fee. I have such a appreciation and respect for GW and its team for what they accomplished with just that in mind.

I enjoy all the game I prefer Puging amazingly enough, but sometimes soloing with heros is beyond helpful...VQ all the GW campains.....with PUG"s LOL right. So heros/henchies are both good and bad. While they kill PUG's sometimes they are better.

The only thing I can say with 100% certainty is that Con set's are killing the game, no one wants to do Elite areas without them. Makes speed clears of hard areas even quicker...they are supposed to be hard and slow.

What I would have liked to see was an Auction house it was nice to be able to put the item in auction set a price and go level or whatever, not having to spend hours hawking.

These are the major things I see in GW and there are dozens of smaller things that make me love the game..female chars with earrings...characters blinking, your character actually having a moving shadow as you run along the ground . Adding of Sorrows Furnace(I wasn't here for it, but the fact they added it free...great)

In all this game is amazing and will always have my support even if I don't like certain things. You can do FAR worse. They got many things so right

Again GW team I appreciate your efforts.